The original post can be found by clicking this link:
(by John W. Loftus)
"Some of you may remember Ed Owens, who recently walked away from the Christian faith. Well, I received another email from him. Maybe we can help…
Hi John, I have a question. I'm really stressed out right now. It seems every time I hear someone even mention God I want to rip their head off. What can I do to mellow out? I've never let up on my brother with the examples of Bible error and parallels with paganism. I've also sent an article about the Bible being voted on for which books to canonize but he is super hard headed and won’t budge at all. I've even tried the soft approach and nothing seems to work. Now I know he sees what I'm showing him, he isn't blind. He just refuses to acknowledge any document of authenticity from history or scientific reasoning. Is there something I'm missing? Is there a sure fire question beyond his being able to refute with old dogma answers? I am so wired and have been for a couple of weeks now I'm going crazy. That congregation is in a Gospel Meeting this week with an Evangelist named William St. John. It lasts through next Sunday. Every time I send material he just calls it trash or the devil's garbage. He can be a reasonable person it just takes nearly an act of congress for him to admit he is wrong about anything! The stress of it all is about to drive me insane. I can't give it up for some reason. I am bound and determined to win him over to the truth! Help me John, please!!!
My wife officially moved her membership last Wednesday to the congregation where my daughter attends but intends to attend at least one night of the meeting this week where we used to go. My wife still gets very defensive when she knows I'm researching atheism or bible errors!
My life is so dismal and has been for the last 3 or 4 months. The church used to be my life completely and now I feel all alone. I've tried reading and writing and surfing the net. I'm feeling pretty down and out about everything and everybody right now. I'm not searching for sympathy just answers for peace of mind.
My brother is my big objective right now. What should I do?
Ed
My response:
Ed,
I think you have this initial desire to convince everyone that you're right, especially your brother. You have this need to convince him you're not crazy, and I understand that. But I'm here to tell you that you're not. You know that you're not. You know that you're right. You don't need validated by others. They may never come around. Stop being frustrated with this. You will not be able to convince many people. Get over it. They are brainwashed. They must want to listen. They must want to consider what you have to say before they will do so. Perhaps at this point you should just be friendly. Talk about the things you did before your changed, minus the religion. That may be all you can do. If he rejects you as a person there's not much you can do about it. My advice is to learn to accept that fact. My brother first suggested I seek counseling too. I argued back, like you have done. Then we dropped it and decided to talk about the things we have in common. That's my recommendation with you. There is no smoking gun argument...none. Sorry. Remember back to when you were a Christian? What did you think about the new atheist movement? Think really hard. What did you say? You probably attributed it to the devil, right? Place yourself back in that mindset as best as you can. That's what your brother thinks of you. There's no use in beating your head against the wall on this. People are deluded just like you were. You're going to have to accept this fact. They will probably never agree with you. As a Christian you accepted the fact that non-believers didn't believe without wanting to rip their heads off. Now do the same thing as an atheist with believers. It'll be better psychologically for you. As a Christian you focused on people who were receptive to the gospel. Now do likewise as an atheist with believers. Focus on those people who are receptive to the evidence. Continue searching the net for better arguments, of course. Get into online chat rooms as test your skills to express yourself there, and not with former friends. People will want to see if what you're gong through is a mid-life crisis. That will take years until they figure it is not. But you stand as a witness on the other side now. Once they conclude this is not a mid-life crisis they may consider your arguments and may do their own searching.
Maybe others can help Ed with additional helpful comments."
3 comments:
I sympathize with your feelings on the matter, but most of the links that I've seen you put up have been somewhat propagandistic.
I can see why many could find your attitude towards this somewhat abrasive and confrontational, but if that's what you seek it's not really any kind of confrontation you can win.
If Christianity is a delusion, it's a delusion that's been thoroughly ingrained into our culture. It's affected our language, our concept of morality, or concept of what is normal and what is alien. You can't get someone to change that from a series of arguments, something so profoundly personal can only be shed from a person's own doubt, decisions, and searching.
In any case, providing an in-your-face image is really the last thing that atheists want. We're the most-hated minority in America. I can't even fully relate to a lot of people I work with. The last thing I need is for that divide to grow.
I'd like to say that people will come around, but I doubt it. Many extremely reasonable people I know would die before converting -- it's got nothing to do with logic, and everything to do with identity.
Thanks for the comment Christian (ironic name eh?). You hit it right on the nail. I've only recently given up being confrontational. In the comments of the original post, someone noted that people waste their lives in pursuit of all kinds of pointless endeavors, not all religious. Hell, I'm one of those people so I should sympathize with those that may live a life without reward at the end. I've become accepting of people that have religious beliefs since sometimes they need that just to carry on. That's fine in a tolerant sense. My biggest gripe is with the concept of religion as a whole, and if I would think that all my nagging and confrontation will do anything to change that would be foolish of me. For that reason, I try to set that aside in day-to-day life as much as possible.
But again, thanks for the comments and for adding to the sense that I'm not alone since, as you know, it can be a lonely corner to sit in.
Yeah, my name's irony has been brought up before (I remember my stepbrother making fun of me for it a long time ago -- couldn't have been more than 8-9 years old).
It's true, too, that even atheists participate in a kind of religion, not in the sense that atheism itself is a religion, but we still find ourselves looking for purpose, looking for ideals and values that mean something. In my experience/reading, this is impossible to do deductively -- one ultimately winds up at existentialism. We all choose our abstractions to create meaning, we just don't pretend that it's all the same thing/entity.
My two (four? eight?) cents
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